Please Evaluate Over unity Idea

[Eighthman]

I am having some difficulty building a prototype of an idea I've wrestled with for some time now. I cannot find any flaw in my thinking but that doesn't mean I'm right. If a fatal flaw can be found, then I can move along to other ideas.

Suppose you have two flat air core generators (as easily purchased from Chinese sources).  In these, a pair of round magnets rotate past both sides of round coils.

In order for Lenz's Law to be true, I would expect that (first) one of these magnet pairs would induce repulsion in the coil. As it passes the coil center, it would then induce attraction in the coil, trying to pull it back from its path of rotation.  In this way, Lenz's Law always produces an opposing torque - and conservation of energy is perfect - while the coil has produced a sine wave.

However, suppose we then gang an exact copy of this generator on the same drive axle - BUT perfectly out of mechanical phase with the first generator.  So, each time a repulsive torque is generated on the one, an attractive torque is generated on the other.  The torques would cancel out, leaving air resistance and bearing friction as the only cost of generation. Diode bridges on each would sum up the currents - and prevent any back flow or contrary reaction.

In this scheme, Lenz's Law is exploited to eliminate its own effect.  

I have tried to find any invention that does this but only the Werjefelt device looks similar. However, that uses permanent magnets, not induced ones. I think my scheme might be more precise as to control and balancing torques.

That's it.  Thank you for reading this far.  Thank you also if you can provide analysis.

[Jim Mac]

So, each time a repulsive torque is generated on the one, an attractive torque is generated on the other.  The torques would cancel out, leaving air resistance and bearing friction as the only cost of generation. 

Hello Eiighthman,

I too have built dual rotor generators that share a common shaft with similar ideas.  The issue I see here is both generators have their separate set of magnets.  And each set of magnets are in their own position in time.  So both rotors exert a resistive drag force on to their own set of magnets - restricting the shaft at their given time.

That "Repelling"  and "Attraction" happening at the same time seems as it may neutralize drag,  But that's only true if those 2 opposing forces were being directed back to the same rotor magnets.  

IMHO-  For this to work, we would need a single magnet rotor passing TWO separate stator coil arrangement circuits at the same time.  Positioned in such a way that that the phases align exactly 180 degrees opposite from each other- from the same polarity magnet passage.  While ensuring the magnetic influence back to the rotor remains equal in reference to the coil positions to the rotor magnets. 

I thought about this extensively in the recent past, and have a few designs I wanted to try.  It's just always a question "is the idea worth sacrificing large amounts of magnet wire again".

[Eighthman]

So, each time a repulsive torque is generated on the one, an attractive torque is generated on the other.  The torques would cancel out, leaving air resistance and bearing friction as the only cost of generation. 

Hello Eiighthman,

I too have built dual rotor generators that share a common shaft with similar ideas.  The issue I see here is both generators have their separate set of magnets.  And each set of magnets are in their own position in time.  So both rotors exert a resistive drag force on to their own set of magnets - restricting the shaft at their given time.

That "Repelling"  and "Attraction" happening at the same time seems as it may neutralize drag,  But that's only true if those 2 opposing forces were being directed back to the same rotor magnets.  

IMHO-  For this to work, we would need a single magnet rotor passing TWO separate stator coil arrangement circuits at the same time.  Positioned in such a way that that the phases align exactly 180 degrees opposite from each other- from the same polarity magnet passage.  While ensuring the magnetic influence back to the rotor remains equal in reference to the coil positions to the rotor magnets. 

I thought about this extensively in the recent past, and have a few designs I wanted to try.  It's just always a question "is the idea worth sacrificing large amounts of magnet wire again".

Arghhhhh !  I think after many months, I now see the problem.  Using transparent sheets with drawings to represent the rotors, I think there's a contradiction.  If there's a space/pause between the magnets, then a contrary torque (in leaving the coil) will not be matched.  If there is no space between the inducing magnets, there will be little or no induced current in a coil because of the overlap, trying to induce currents is different directions.  This is very hard to visualize but I think this may be the issue.

The only way to do this is with some other sort of mechanical movement rather than simple rotation.  I think.......

[unimmortal]

Hey Eighthman. Your idea has merit, and there are several patents out there dealing with magnet rotors and air coils in an attempt to neutralise or even reverse lenz.

I've built something that can so far reduce 30% of input with un-orthodox wiring. It can be done...

[Eighthman]

Hey Eighthman. Your idea has merit, and there are several patents out there dealing with magnet rotors and air coils in an attempt to neutralise or even reverse lenz.

I've built something that can so far reduce 30% of input with un-orthodox wiring. It can be done...

Gimme links or patent numbers !  I don't want to "re-invent the wheel" !  I know about Werjefelt but there may be others.