Double Rotor Generator / Different Speeds

[Jim Mac]

I have new parts coming this weekend and am planning a new build.  I have a strategy planned which should change the magnetic interactions of a standard generator for our benefit.

I will get more into it soon, but for now, I will say it aims to use gear ratios and 2 rotors to cause the magnetic field to shrink when the magnets are approaching the coil and grow when the magnets leave the coil.  

It will work by neutralizing the magnetic fields with 2 opposite polarities at exact timing.

The first step is to make a single rotating shaft.  One magnet rotor will mount directly to the shaft,  the 2nd rotor will be driven by 2:1 gears and chain. So 1 rotor spins exactly 2X as quick as the other.

More to come soon

[Jim Mac]

This arrangement I will build mimics the other idea ALF and I were working on.  In the old idea, metal on the rotor was magnetized in an arrangement that makes the magnetic field SHRINK or DECREASE on approach and GROW on exit.  The aim was to harmonize the magnetic domains associated with induction to work in harmony with rotation.  I think it showed merit, but I was having difficulty with the metal's attraction to the magnets and it's resistance to flip domains easily  + *cogging*..

This new idea does away with the metal strips and uses just magnets.  But as stated earlier, it will take dual rotors and gears..

More to come soon!

[Jim Mac]

My parts arrived quickly and printing is underway.  

   

The theory behind the build is a little awkward to explain, so the full explanation will have to wait till I have more to show. 

But if you want to work it out:

~  2 rotors.  One has all NORTH magnets, the other all SOUTH
~  1 Rotor spins 2X as fast as the other rotor.  Both rotors on 1 shaft.
~  There will be a point where 1 North and 1 South are at the same position at the same time. (Neutralized)  
~  The coil(s) need to be placed in "Exact Locations".  
~ Switching the output coil will be necessary if each rotor has the same number of magnets

With this info and some basic understanding about how Magnetic fields work with Lenz Drag,  maybe someone will see what I am thinking

[Jim Mac]

The build is coming along.  It can obviously be improved upon, but the interactions of this build should be adequate to determine if the interactions will work as planned.

  

The magnets have since been installed.  But I do not have correct sized coils to fit under the rotors, so I will next have to print bobbins and wind proper-sized coils.

[Jim Mac]

Nice..  All systems are A-Go!

I rigged up 2 small coils.  First I tested normal magnetic interactions..  Normal Lenz Drag upon leaving the coil makes the induced wave go Positive on the scope.  This is Normal Generator action..

Then I placed the 2nd coil under the faster rotor, and as I hoped, now the induced wave goes NEGATIVE on the same stroke!

This is signaling that the magnetic field is indeed growing on the exit now, instead of shrinking...  

Logic suggests that the coil's magnetic fields should affect the rotor that is CLOSER to the coil with more force.  And that would be the Slower rotor!

These coils are not good enough to do a full test with, but what they are showing is exactly what I want to see!

[Jim Mac]

The printing continues....  We will see if I have time later tonight to test.  If not, in the next day or two..

I made a pictorial for understanding: (these are only my thoughts on the system)  

   

1. Both rotors are linked to a common shaft
   
2. Each rotor has it's own coil (wired in series)
   
3. The SLOWER rotor magnet is ALWAYS closest to the coil (except when equal at TDC)
   
4.  Lenz "SHOULD" affect the SLOWER rotor more than the quick one (since it's always closer)
   
5. The FASTER Coil will experience Standard Lenz Drag
   
6. The SLOWER Coil "SHOULD" experience Reverse Drag - But to a Higher Degree than the fast rotor because the magnet is CLOSER to the coil than the faster one on Approach and Exit.
   

The output coils will probably need to be switched to only collect in the windows shown in the pic above.  Because hurtful Drag should manifest before and after these timings. 

As mentioned before, preliminary tests with the scope indeed showed a reversal in induced current direction of a standard generator.   I will have to see how it behaves with a full test.

   

[Jim Mac]

I got 2 coils mounted and can generate a few volts open circuit with hand-spinning at a few hundred milliamps shorted.  So I can now show the scope shots video of the wave reversing from a normal generator..



You can clearly see the wave and decipher what's going on now..  Under usual generator operation, we get 1 polarity as the magnetic field weakens while pulling away...  But now with this setup,  you can clearly see the magnetic field GROW, then Weakens on the exit..  

And now for the Full Monte...  This Next Video shows the magnetic interaction of BOTH the approach and exit,  thus showing the FULL SINEWAVE reversal in the Target Area.



My theory suggests this area shown in Video #2 above is the "Hot Zone" where I want the output coils to connect ONLY...  There will be other induced currents during the rotation that I DO NOT want to collect, as they will drag the rotors down.  

So now I am printing a motor mount and in the next day or two, I will be rigging up the switching circuit..  I also have 2 more coils I will probably be adding..  But that may be a little longer wait as I have to print more coil mounts..

But so-Far I think it looks promising!

[ovun987]

Thank you for the videos explaining and showing everything, Jim.

Totally makes sense!

Keep us updated with your progress!

[Jim Mac]

Thank you for the videos explaining and showing everything, Jim.

Totally makes sense!

Keep us updated with your progress!

I did some tests and unfortunately the rotors take too much input power to spin.  I have to input close to 20 watts to get the rotors moving fast enough to test.  The output is not great enough to obtain any solid data.

I am thinking of a new way to achieve the same effect which may alleviate the need for switching the output coil and with no gears.

[Jim Mac]

I have thought of several ways to do similar..  A magnet rotor which causes the magnetic field to GROW on the exit,  thus reversing the normal interaction of a generator..

The simplest way I thought of so far involves using a rotor designed like this:

   

This relies on magnetic neutralization, so we must use 2 opposite polarity magnets.  Now as you should know,  if these magnets that are aligned pass a standard coil, there will be no induction because the field is neutralized..

That's exactly what I want to happen for 1/2 the magnet pass.. But I want 1 magnet to fully pass the coil while the other is just past top dead center.  

The easiest way I see is winding a stepped  or L-shaped coil to accomplish this..

   

As you can see, both magnets enter the flat plane of the coil at the same time.  When the blue magnet is dead-center the red magnet is starting to exit.  The coil starts seeing a Growing Blue magnetic field when the Blue magnet is Past Top Dead Center.  

The whole object is to trick the coil to think a blue magnet is Approaching when in fact, the blue magnet is actually leaving.  

This should be a pretty simple build, so away we go