Reversing Lenz Project

[Jim Mac]

I got a lot of catching up to do but seriously nice work Jim on this idea and also on the building and testing. Thank you for sharing! It definitely sounds very promising.

Nice to see ya back..  And thanks..

So here is my next attempt.  A little different but same philosophy.

I can honestly say there is no way I can design a stator anywhere near the quality of a commercially available clam shell stator.  So I am going to attempt to use that..

I got this one from a Kitchen aid mixer I picked up on the side of the road.  I managed to drill 2 holes on either side between the coils.  I had the laminations clamped, but it still started to split a tad.  No biggie, it's still solid and I have crazy glue on it sealing it all up.  My holes are also a tad off center, but it shouldn't make much of a difference..

   

Next I will print inserts so big Neo's can go in.  One North in and one South in.  Then finally I will print some mount and design some rotor that will rotate 2 ferrous bridgers inside. 

This arrangement will still cause the Shrinking field  on approach and growing field on exit.  But now I can concentrate the magnetism all in this stator to hopefully get decent output with minimal to no Lenz drag..

Guess we will see.

[Jim Mac]

Ok well Member MERLYNN mentioned something in a past thread of his. .  And I think he nailed it. 

I have been looking closely at what the magnetic fields are doing inside the metal. And they are rotating. Not only are they rotating, they are rotating while rotating. 

Merlynn,s thread mentions something about you. Need two rotating fields. Now I could understand this. 

Eliminating Lenz is definitely possible by rotating a magnetic field that is rotating. But there are nuances that need to be followed and understood. 

The direction and orientation of the two rotating objects is important. 

Everyone has their own way of understanding and explaining things. So I will explain it my way. Maybe it will click. 

If something is rotating inside a rotating object, and if the parameters are correct, the electromagnetic field from induction will work against one of the rotating fields thus causing drag. But at the same time, the rotating carrier that is rotating the rotating field can also be affected by this EMF from the induction coil, and counter the drag. 

I also now realize it could be done with magnets without metal. But the ways I have figured out so far are pretty complicated to build.

[Jim Mac]

I made a little video again demonstrating in another way how ferrous metal will take the opposite polarity in the end closest to the magnet. 

[Dave Wing]

Jim, Here is another video showing my pulse motor being run with the magnets on their sides, the iron cores do not attract, but repel in the center of the magnet.

https://youtu.be/wQX78gIlezU?si=MMmtz32sK5ORSRxn

Dave Wing

[Jim Mac]

Jim, Here is another video showing my pulse motor being run with the magnets on their sides, the iron cores do not attract, but repel in the center of the magnet.

https://youtu.be/wQX78gIlezU?si=MMmtz32sK5ORSRxn

Dave Wing

This is a nice build, but this particular thread is speaking about an entirely different method. I am not moving or rotating the magnets.  And this thread is about a generator, not a pulse motor.

This does deserve it's own post.  Are you interested in a moderated builders bench so you can moderate topics of yours?  Let me know and I can set you up.

[Jim Mac]

Ok back to this project...  I am working on some other projects as you probably saw, that's just how I roll..

As a reminder, this was my first build..  The under carriage looked like this:

   

I had 4 Large magnets and 4 rather small coils.  Despite the small coils and small cores, it was still able to output up to 3 amps of current shorted when all 4 were in parallel.  And in series, I got 8+V open circuit with about 1/2 amp shorted..  Output was somewhat decent..

So instead of making a 6 magnet / coil setup, I have decided to make a 4 magnet/coil setup again but with large proper coils..  

These are the coils I will be using-  4 of them.

   

They are pretty beefy and I have made generators with them before that output well into the double digit wattage levels.  Here is a video using 6 of those same coils, and this generator outputs very well.  You can see 6 of these coils produces 35V open circuit at 6+ amps Shorted at rather slow speeds.




Now remember, this new design will have less magnetism than the generator above because I am transferring the flux to ferrite.  But it will spin MUCH faster for MUCH less power.  

So based on the results from the first build, this next build should be a HUGE improvement and should certainly tell me with certainty if this method is worth it's weight..

[Dave Wing]

Jim, Here is another video showing my pulse motor being run with the magnets on their sides, the iron cores do not attract, but repel in the center of the magnet.

https://youtu.be/wQX78gIlezU?si=MMmtz32sK5ORSRxn

Dave Wing

This is a nice build, but this particular thread is speaking about an entirely different method. I am not moving or rotating the magnets.  And this thread is about a generator, not a pulse motor.

This does deserve it's own post.  Are you interested in a moderated builders bench so you can moderate topics of yours?  Let me know and I can set you up.

Hi Jim, I’m not ready to start my own thread yet, still perfecting the motor. I would like to mention that my pulse motor functions as a generator when motoring and also a generator when the motor is rotating and the trigger switched off.


Not trying to take over your thread just sharing my research.

Dave Wing

[unimmortal]

Ok back to this project...  I am working on some other projects as you probably saw, that's just how I roll..

As a reminder, this was my first build..  The under carriage looked like this:



I had 4 Large magnets and 4 rather small coils.  Despite the small coils and small cores, it was still able to output up to 3 amps of current shorted when all 4 were in parallel.  And in series, I got 8+V open circuit with about 1/2 amp shorted..  Output was somewhat decent..

So instead of making a 6 magnet / coil setup, I have decided to make a 4 magnet/coil setup again but with large proper coils..  

These are the coils I will be using-  4 of them.



They are pretty beefy and I have made generators with them before that output well into the double digit wattage levels.  Here is a video using 6 of those same coils, and this generator outputs very well.  You can see 6 of these coils produces 35V open circuit at 6+ amps Shorted at rather slow speeds.




Now remember, this new design will have less magnetism than the generator above because I am transferring the flux to ferrite.  But it will spin MUCH faster for MUCH less power.  

So based on the results from the first build, this next build should be a HUGE improvement and should certainly tell me with certainty if this method is worth it's weight..

Wicked job man... I know it is meant to be just a test bed ... but if you put another rotor on the otherside of your transformers/coils and offset 180°, the cogging and input current will be radically reduced, and your output will double. Just a thought...

[Jim Mac]

Ok back to this project...  I am working on some other projects as you probably saw, that's just how I roll..

As a reminder, this was my first build..  The under carriage looked like this:



I had 4 Large magnets and 4 rather small coils.  Despite the small coils and small cores, it was still able to output up to 3 amps of current shorted when all 4 were in parallel.  And in series, I got 8+V open circuit with about 1/2 amp shorted..  Output was somewhat decent..

So instead of making a 6 magnet / coil setup, I have decided to make a 4 magnet/coil setup again but with large proper coils..  

These are the coils I will be using-  4 of them.



They are pretty beefy and I have made generators with them before that output well into the double digit wattage levels.  Here is a video using 6 of those same coils, and this generator outputs very well.  You can see 6 of these coils produces 35V open circuit at 6+ amps Shorted at rather slow speeds.




Now remember, this new design will have less magnetism than the generator above because I am transferring the flux to ferrite.  But it will spin MUCH faster for MUCH less power.  

So based on the results from the first build, this next build should be a HUGE improvement and should certainly tell me with certainty if this method is worth it's weight..

Wicked job man... I know it is meant to be just a test bed ... but if you put another rotor on the otherside of your transformers/coils and offset 180°, the cogging and input current will be radically reduced, and your output will double. Just a thought...

 I was thinking about adding more magnets to the rig. But they would need to be lined up exactly with the other magnets. The coils need to be exactly in between a north and south magnet. 

But I really don't want to waste stuff on that because those coils are so small and have a lot of room for improvement. 

I just started the first take on the new design. It's going to be a 48 hour print just to print the stator which holds the magnets and coils in place. 

I could consider adding a second layer of magnets over the rotor at a later date if the results warrant it. I could actually add an entire second stator over the rotor with additional magnets and coils. But that's for a later date

[Jim Mac]

I am 12 hours into printing and about 25% complete..  This is going to take nearly a whole roll (300 Meters) of filament..

Here is the design:

   

The drive motor mounts up in the middle hunk.  

and here is the progress after 12 hours

   

This thing is as big as I can print in 1 piece.  1.5mm short of maxing out the print bed..

It will have 4 of these N52's that are 39mm X 20mm thick.

   

Plus 4 of the coils I posted a little earlier on laminated E cores..

If this print is successful with no major flaws, then I need to think about what to use for the ferrous rotor pieces.  SO basically this will be my legitimate test..

Ideally I want to use 40mm Ferrite Discs that are NOT MAGNETIZED.  But I can not seem to find a supplier.  If you find a source, post me links!