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Jim's Spiral Motors
#1
In the past, I made a few spiral magnet rotors, I was, and still am, fascinated by the possibilities.  Here are the one's I have now.

   

   

   

These obviously will spin with different magnet stator methods (with some form of input power)..  But can we use a spiral rotor to make a "Self-Runner"?

So I have been playing with them and am intrigued by a new angle..

So position a spiral rotor in front of a magnet like this:

   

That rotor will ZIP right around to the end of the spiral no problem.  But then we hit the age old problem of starting the cycle again.  As the last magnet pulls out and the first is coming back in, we have the "GATE".  Which is always the trouble spot..

Now I am thinking, maybe this idea is worth trying...  

When the forces are on our side , lets call this the "Cherry Zone"..  A magnet always has to leave and another enter. (the gate).  But the entry and exit do NOT need to occur at the same time.  And now I am thinking that nothing is preventing us from having multiple magnets in the Cherry Zone.  

If we arrange the magnet spiral to make more than 1 revolution, we can probably arrange it so only 1 magnet is exiting or entering at any given time, AND we can have several magnets in the "Cherry Zone" providing us the force needed to overcome the gate.

Something like this: except more spirals (more in the cherry zone)  and end the spirals on opposite sides so we do not get hammered at the gate.

   

The accumulative force of several magnets being pulled should be stronger than the force of a single magnet battling the gate.
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#2
Here we go.  Easy to design..

   

If we make 3.5 revolution spiral, we always have 3 magnets being pulled when 1 magnet is passing the gate.  And the end magnets are 180 degrees from each other so we never have both magnets passing the gate at once.

There will ALWAYS be only 1 magnet at the end and 1 at the beginning. Never more.    BUT we can increase the spiral count as needed to develop the force we need to reset the cycle.
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#3
( I had to update this post because I performed more tests and had corrections)

Good News.

I performed a "Pull test" on the 50mm long magnets I will be using as the stator.  I wanted to see if the force dropped off when passing different sections of the side of the stator magnet. 

   

This will tell me how useful the additional magnets (spiral rotations) will actually be.  If we have several revolutions on the spiral, each magnet that is aligned with the stator magnet will be located at a different spot in regards to the stator magnet.  So I needed to know if pull force is weaker or stronger at any points.  This tells me if each spiral magnet is helping equally, or only fractionally.

From my crude rig, it seems the pull strength is greatest at the blotch wall area.  

This is excellent, because with my 3.5 revolution spiral I am building, 2 out of 3 magnets that are always in play are aligned in the "Hot Magnetic Strength" area...   

Hopefully the forces combine as I anticipate, and it well exceeds the gate resistance.
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#4
I recall when you first posted this concept. Was intrigued then and am happy to see you are still investigating the concept. I remember doing a quick and dirty test at the time. If memory serves me right, the rotor will spin fast with minimal resistance but the torque was proportional to the effort you put in and thus the speed of the device as well. So low speed there was more torque but also more work by the sliding stator required. This being due to you basically pushing into the magnets to get them to move away from your sliding stator. If the rotor is already spinning then it doesn't take much to keep it spinning but torque goes way down.

I do think your setup is better than a V gate. Your system appers to be more of a consistent pull or push throughout the sliding stators movement. A V gate works less efficiently becaue the pull from the V shaped gate is not uniform. The widly spaced manets are basically being used inefficiently since the pull is not as straight as it is from the top of the V gate where the magnets are close together. Keep up the good work.
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#5
Hi this is a really interesting idea thank you for sharing. I thought I'd give it a go too, I've made a model (will attach it here) but just getting the magnets first before printing. Really great forum btw!

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#6
(04-13-2024, 07:33 AM)GT899 Wrote: Hi this is a really interesting idea thank you for sharing. I thought I'd give it a go too, I've made a model (will attach it here) but just getting the magnets first before printing. Really great forum btw!

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Welcome.  Your design is perfect..

Now I think I know how to totally eliminate the gate....

Take your design and use a stator magnet that is slightly longer than 1 single spiral and align it dead center..

   

Now the center single spiral is always trying to find balance (creating rotation) and the spiral has no end!   No magnets never have to pass the gate..

The spiral should probably extend past the magnetic field of the stator magnet so the far end magnets receive no force. The other magnets on the next revolutions should pose no problems because they are balanced on both sides, as 1 leaves another is entering. 

My rotor will be done printing soon..  then I can test!
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#7
very interesting concept 
good luck with building
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#8
Ok done printing...  I installed several magnets but did not close the gate yet..  I want to test every time I add a magnet and see what happens.  Because once they are glued in, they are permanent..

So this has a totally open gate.  But you can observe the effect I am after..



I will be recording after each magnet. I will not post them all, but when I see interesting effects I will report back.  Stand by!
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#9
Fantastic work! You're on a roll I need to catch up. Wish I had the spare magnets to build this. I got over 50 10mm magnets with 20mm length but there too long to really put into a drum cylinder as the ends will meet or overlap inside the drum while on the outer surface they will be spaced too far apart so sourcing some shallow magnets. Good work and really clever idea having the bar magnet in the centre to create this endless spiral effect!
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#10
(04-13-2024, 10:48 AM)GT899 Wrote: Fantastic work! You're on a roll I need to catch up. Wish I had the spare magnets to build this. I got over 50 10mm magnets with 20mm length but there too long to really put into a drum cylinder as the ends will meet or overlap inside the drum while on the outer surface they will be spaced too far apart so sourcing some shallow magnets. Good work and really clever idea having the bar magnet in the centre to create this endless spiral effect!

20mm magnets would work, just the rotor diameter would need to be like 120mm.  I tried every other hole at first and the magnets were too far away to get rotation, so 20mm on a 60mm rotor is a no-go.  

So I added more magnets and can confirm that it absolutely still rotates when 2 revolutions are interfacing the stator magnet.  And the force is increased.  Each time I add a magnet, the gate position changes..  The gate keeps creeping further out.  So all good so far

Hopefully I get no hinderance once I extend the spiral past the poles of the stator so the gate is out of the picture..  I will know soon enough!
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