About the open source mission statement

[Jim Mac]

Jim, et. al.,

Let me humbly ask "What is Open Source exactly?"

And 'when' you are given the EE_TFG "real build details" how, exactly, do
you plan to build and distribute the EE_TFG to the millions of less fortunate?

Or, do you all have another approach to this, or scheme to get it all done?

I've asked these questions before but have yet to receive a single direct detailed 
answer.

So 'when' you have been given the complete build details - then where does it
go from there?  You all must know these answers by now, or you wouldn't be
begger-manding.

Your response(s) are critical in making future decisions and moving forward!

Thanks in advance...

SL

Honestly, I really have no interest in discussing how open market commerce lowers prices for the average consumer. And how monopolistic patents are designed for maximum profit of the few.

This is just going to lead to further disagreements which I have no time for.

I wish you the best in your future endeavors

[MagnaProp]

I am glad to have you here Magnaprop.

Consider- Many 3rd world countries remain poor because of the lack of electricity.  A production plant that brings jobs and money into areas can not be built there if there is no reliable electricity around.  Homes in remote areas need wells for clean water access but if there is no electricity to power the well pump, the area is "undesirable"  to settle on.  

They are caught in a catch 22.  Electric companies won't build new plants if there is no population to serve, and the people will not populate an area with no electricity.

Thanks for having me in your forum.

What you say is true. Unfortunately I think it is also try that the poor countries are purposely kept poor. If they have powered homes and such they will be less willing to work for magic beans and will start to demand a living wage or more. Big Brother doesn't like that.

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Jim, et. al.,

Let me humbly ask "What is Open Source exactly?"

And 'when' you are given the EE_TFG "real build details" how, exactly, do
you plan to build and distribute the EE_TFG to the millions of less fortunate?

Or, do you all have another approach to this, or scheme to get it all done?

I've asked these questions before but have yet to receive a single direct detailed 
answer.

So 'when' you have been given the complete build details - then where does it
go from there?  You all must know these answers by now, or you wouldn't be
begger-manding.

Your response(s) are critical in making future decisions and moving forward!

Thanks in advance...

SL

Open source to me is sharing what you can, as much as you can. That's rather vague but just means to me that a person should share what they want to share.

As far as distribution, that's a tough one in the money run world we currently live in. I think a person can either put the info out there as publicly as possible and hope it catches on in some way that gets it mass produced. People have easier access to 3D printers now so if the idea is good, let them print it up.

Or if you want to mass produce it yourself or be involved in that, then we are talking about something corporate. The Dyson vacume somes to mind. He pitched the bagless vacume around to companies and they laughed at him. So he brought it to market himself. That brings up getting patents and such as well. Not a simple subject for me but I currently view patents as a form of power. As with most forms of power, it can be used either for good or bad depending on the person that wields the power. Most bad patent holders chose to use their power to try and stop others from gaining such power to be used for good things. A small few good people may get a patent to prevent other bad people from obtaining such power, effectively keeping info in the patent free for anyone to reproduce without having to pay a percentage on.

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I couldn't post in your EEG thread so I wanted to say it here. I'm sad to see the thread go but am glad you gave some time for use to look through it before it's gone. I am new to the EEG concept but have saved the info as much as possible for future viewing for which I thank you for.

On a related note, I have noticed some of TinMan's videos have been removed from his channel. I am only now beginning to comprehend some of the things he showed in them. I am thankfull to him as well for sharing what he did for as long as he could but wish the info could remain public for future people smarter than me to learn from as well.

In removing info, I'm wondering if there could be a flip side to that, in that it could expose you to more risk than benefits. Having the info publicly available may gives you some standing in proving the work is yours. I can understand taking furture developments off line if one chooses to but removing info that has already been made public lets other people possibly claim the info as their own. After all they may say, if it's your idea, then what if your proof, did you post it publicly? I don't see any mention of it from you anywhere. Because it's been removed.

[PhaseChange]

I think back to that great man Tesla, who gave us so many wonderful things.
He died alone and broke in a hotel room--so much for the world treating him as he treated the world.

I hear so many times--just give to the world freely, and the world will look after you
Once again, didn't seem to work for Tesla.

Is it so wrong for some one who has spent years, and countless dollars of his own, to ask for just enough so as he could keep on doing what everyone wants from him--his planets saving tech. Nothing would p*^s me off more than some well funded company or entity, who would ask that you just give it all away, and then in the very next sentence say- but we will give you nothing in return. Let us come check out your tech, and once we have seen it work, and know exactly how it works, we'll get back to you.
Reminds me of the red cross saga in my country Australia--just give us your donations, and we'll make sure the needy get it. Sure.

Anyway, i will take my leave, as it seems i am not of much use here.
I wish you all the best in all that you do.


Tesla--gave so much--died broke and alone in a hotel room.


Brad (AKA-TinMan)

[MagnaProp]

And the government was ready to go through his stuff the moment he passed away. Pretty sick and shameful. Guess they thought they would get his death ray for free.

We are imperfect beings, on an imperfect planet, doing the best we can I suppose.

I think TinMan is as close to a modern day Nikola Tesla as I have personally ever seen. He mentioned recently he is working hard to find a way to harness magnetism as a power source and I believe he will find it.

...I hear so many times--just give to the world freely, and the world will look after you...

I've learned to give to the world freely and expect nothing in return, but hope for the best. Been burned one to many times, as I'm sure we all have in our own ways, to expect anything more. Nikola Tesla was a prime example of that by how he was ultimately treated, as you mention. Luckily we can learn some things from him today from the patents he left behind. A great example of a person that tried to do good with the patent power he had amased.

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I think this recent video from Veritasium is another great example of the good guy getting screwed by a big corporation. For those that haven't seen it, a researcher has a great boss that bets the farm on letting him follow his own path in developing the blue LED . Before he discovers it, an evil family member takes over the company and tells the guy to stop what he is doing and pursue a different path. The researcher refuses and goes his own path, ultimately producing the best blue LED at the time. The new evil company owner doesn't thank the researcher but sues him for giving company secrets to other companies. All while becoming a multi billion dollar company in large part due to the blue LED he essentially told the researcher to stop developing.

Corporate greed at its finest.

https://youtu.be/AF8d72mA41M?feature=shared

[Jim Mac]

I think back to that great man Tesla, who gave us so many wonderful things.
He died alone and broke in a hotel room--so much for the world treating him as he treated the world.

I hear so many times--just give to the world freely, and the world will look after you
Once again, didn't seem to work for Tesla.

I never said " the world will look after you".  It's probably quite the opposite.  We learn from history, true saviors' are usually persecuted. 

Westinghouse gave Tesla $60,000 in an initial lump sum for his ideas (that's worth roughly $1.4 million in today's dollars.) Tesla was given a $2000 a month salary to work for Westinghouse, (the equivalent of $48,000 per month today.)  Tesla had roughly 300 patents. 

Let's look at his grand project that led to his demise. The Wardenclyffe Tower.  He NEVER released the detailed plans to the public. And he took that knowledge to his grave.  

Personally, I will take a pass on the money.  If I ever get something working, it will be distributed freely from day 1.  I will take nothing to my grave like Tesla, Figuera, and so many others. Nor will I "hold out" for payment until I release life-saving information.

We all have our goals and ethical boundaries. "Open Source ONLY After I Get Paid" just isn't the ethics I want to live by. And is in contradiction to this forums outline.

Tinman, when you do decide to open source the knowledge, this forum will be waiting in hopes you share it here.

[MagnaProp]

I'm not sure open source and getting a patent is necessarily in conflict with each other. Once a patent is approved, the info is basically free for anyone to see, learn from and improve on.

Now if your patent is really really good, the government will just classify it as top secret and keep it for themselves. That's not very open in that case.

An imperfect system in our little imperfect world.

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...We all have our goals and ethical boundaries. "Open Source ONLY After I Get Paid" just isn't the ethics I want to live by. And is in contradiction to this forums outline...

Could it be seen as "open source only after my idea gets protected"? Credit where credit is due sort of thing. Having a patent does make it more difficult for others to take an idea as their own. Having a patent is no guarantee any money will be made off of it. It is guaranteed that it will cost the patent seeker some money in going through the process of getting one and making sure it stays valid.

[Jim Mac]

I'm not sure open source and getting a patent is necessarily in conflict with each other. Once a patent is approved, the info is basically free for anyone to see, learn from and improve on.

Now if your patent is really really good, the government will just classify it as top secret and keep it for themselves. That's not very open in that case.

An imperfect system in our little imperfect world.

When patenting, the information is kept secret until "Monopoly Protection" can be established.  The Open Market may not compete and offer competitive prices on the product.

This process keeps the prices HIGH for the consumer and ultimately keeps the technology out of the hands of the less fortunate who need it the most and who can not build it or afford it.

You can see this in action with the prices of patented medication verse the price when the patent expires. People are dying daily who can not afford the jacked up prices of medicine.  

The companies tell us the high prices are for R&D, when we look up what % of profits actually go into R&D, it lands somewhere about 13.6% on average.  That jacked up price is surely surpassing that 13% and the CEO's reside in their mansions with vacation homes on private islands.

Personally, I would rather work till I retire than be part of that system.

[MagnaProp]

When patenting, the information is kept secret until "Monopoly Protection" can be established.  The Open Market may not compete and offer competitive prices on the product...

Right. I would agree that 99.9 percent of big corporations operate that way.

However, is it possible that a few of us open source minded people might sneak into that game but not play it in such an evil way? Tesla tried to play it but failed. Does that mean that other good minded people should stop trying to play it as well? Could a good minded person start up an energy corporation and do things more civilized by not jacking prices up high, by not being paid millions of dollars while your employees get crumbs?

I wish that game didn't have to be played but in our current societies that run on money, perhaps it does to some degree.

I keep thinking about what Dave Chappelle told Oprah on her show after he came back from going AWOL. He said he didn't want the 50 million he was offered, give it to somebody else like the homeless that needs it. So Dave Chappelle is a good person in this instance that could have literally given the 50 million away if he wanted to. Instead, he didn't play the game, didn't take the money and I guarantee that the people who offered it to him, didn't give it to the homeless.

Sometimes the good guys may have to protect themselves some and make a little scratch, in order to spread it around to those that need it most. If the good guy gets to that level, then we just have to hope that greed doesn't set in at some point and have him blow it all in Vegas.

[Jim Mac]

When patenting, the information is kept secret until "Monopoly Protection" can be established.  The Open Market may not compete and offer competitive prices on the product...

Right. I would agree that 99.9 percent of big corporations operate that way.

However, is it possible that a few of us open source minded people might sneak into that game but not play it in such an evil way? Tesla tried to play it but failed. Does that mean that other good minded people should stop trying to play it as well? Could a good minded person start up an energy corporation and do things more civilized by not jacking prices up high, by not being paid millions of dollars while your employees get crumbs?

I wish that game didn't have to be played but in our current societies that run on money, perhaps it does to some degree.

I keep thinking about what Dave Chappelle told Oprah on her show after he came back from going AWOL. He said he didn't want the 50 million he was offered, give it to somebody else like the homeless that needs it. So Dave Chappelle is a good person in this instance that could have literally given the 50 million away if he wanted to. Instead, he didn't play the game, didn't take the money and I guarantee that the people who offered it to him, didn't give it to the homeless.

Sometimes the good guys may have to protect themselves some and make a little scratch, in order to spread it around to those that need it most. If the good guy gets to that level, then we just have to hope that greed doesn't set in at some point and have him blow it all in Vegas.

There are always exceptions to the norm. But why not just release the info? A working FE device will spread like wildfire and be replicated in no time.

The desire for Fame and Fortune is what holds humanity back.  To give with no expectations of getting anything in return is what will move humanity forward. But it's the road least travelled.  And if I travel it alone, so be it.

[Jim Mac]

I wanted to leave this thread open for a day or two so people had a chance to reply, but I don't want this thread to take over this site. 

I have never said that Tinman nor Solarlab are not invited to share their information here. Nor did I ask them to leave. That is their choice. 

The mission statement has been stated and is pretty simple. Humanity over profit. 

With that said, I will be locking this thread as there is no point in debating this.