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Horvath Patents Allowed Engine To Run On Water Improved Electrolysis Efficiency
#1
The Engineer Horvath had 3 related Patents for hydrogen from water auto conversions. Final cell as low voltage , another at high voltage with same instilled circuit, and the more elaborate water cell with central radiation Magnetron tube.Photos do not tell which type was displayed.  I studied the low volts model and typed out page of proof reading errors not caught .Patents  designs included obvious non essential parts to deter people from replication, - such as cast special carburetor, large diameter cell, interior - rather than external transformer.
 Outer box strong magnets on sides of narrow cell would suffice to speed ions . I had 2 steel plates knurled rough with matching flutes nickel plated at machine shop.. They would face each other in narrow gap. High temp gray PVC plates measured for cell + removable cover. Source for free distilled water would still be needed.
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#2
Just more tech data.- US Patent 3980053 contains parts list I went over carefully. There are a few proofreading mistakes and a couple parts in parts list were wrong. The Author didn't want the unit duplicated, so as some electronic parts were changed. The main UJT oscillator should be R1 Pot 25Kohm , capacitor as .006uf, R2 as 100ohm. This will give proper frequencies for operation of electrolysis circuit at 10khtz. The SCR switch is old style , mostly discontinued, and would be replaced by MOSFET on heat sink. Fast repeating DC pulses to cell is way better than straight DC for gases evolution of Hydrogen.Time is there for stuck ions to release, making faster operation. Any one interested should study the online Patent. Final output of 30volts + 200 pulse amps is sufficient for making free fuel. The approx 40 amp battery draw at 12v is replaced by standard alternator. Beefed up 450 Watts , instead of low watts CDI for an ignition coil.The magnetic field pulses also increases efficiency. Potassium Hydroxide as electrolyte allows passage of heavy current to water cell. I may replicate this also, as side project, as used at LOWERED output level, to fire just single spark plug as no separate cell, in engine.
(By the way, Archie Blue, engineer from new Zealand with Patent, also ran 2 4cyl cars on water using his special vertical cell of staggerd, perforated discs and side electrodes. Small air pimp input from cell bottom, bubbled upward, allowed the neutral air to CLEAN SWEEP the stuck ions from the thin aluminum discs. Improved Hydrogen Gas Generator efficiency. Seek and ye shall find.)
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#3
Horvath Patent Saves Even More Energy!

The high wattage CDI power supply, 2nd transformer Tr2 as inside the water cell, had no rectifier on secondary side wanted. The waste heat was not desired by use of a rectifier as it was running on 200amps current. Energy was then conserved, and Tr2 transformer had been changed to iron laminations instead of Ferrite material normally for high frequency. It's use allowed for what is expressed as a positive + pulse output as DC , due to the formation of a degenerated, type, of Critical Positive Wave , as seen on oscilloscope. Brilliant!. Taken all together, the electronic circuit was successful, and 2nd similar CDI Patent was issued as final output high voltage type, and 3rd Horvath Patent issued using Radiation Magnetron tube in water cell. That one was shown in the Ford Fairlane V8 engine, back in those days.
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#4
: Horvath Patents Allowed Engine To Run On Water Improved Electrolysis Efficiency
Horvath Math for designing circuit for hydrogen generator. requires PULSE PEAK input 900w  into primary for 22A 2uf capacitor discharges at 10khz. Use old style scientific calculator for the formulas. I just went through it.  Secondary of TR2 has output diode, so as there being an on + off time for release of stuck ions from plates. I have flat nickel coated plates with flutes, knurled, with N + S magnets on back side. 3/8" acrylic plastic box, 400mesh nylon screen. The capacitor is 2uf as induction stove range type polypropylene capacitor high frequency type. .P type Mosfet paralleled as used for high side switching direct to spark plug, or N channel for regular use as applied to water cell. POH is 25% solution by weight,  meaning gallon is from both together same time -not gallon input water. .22 pulse amps becomes 200 amps pulse to plates. fast recovery heavy amp rectifier, or Horvath just used 3/4" iron laminations block with no diode, to get the critical positive wave out. AS used on input high frequency . China sells open board 1000 watts inverter with option of 330v terminals (to get about 600watts necessary) Can wind your own 2 transformers TR1 + TR, and can build your own switching inverter. L primary = C / I squared divided by E squared.  I = E X square root C / L.   Magnet wire as gauge # circular mills = 750 X I X duty cycle from wires chart. 10khz, .09joules each, 22A peak pulses, 371uh primary, 900w, 2uf, #16 #18 gauge primary, 2gauge secondary, Ratio 10:1 turns, duty cycle secondary .5 , water cell receives 450 Watts. Peak amps or watts is not average watts over the period time, .etc.

Grok  AI

What is average power in watts drawn from input 12v battery required for 900 PEAK pulse watts CDI capacitor into transformer with secondary diode and 50% on time only? Does this assume 450 watts average power to load

To determine the average power drawn from a 12 V battery to supply a CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition) system delivering 900 W peak pulse power into a transformer’s primary, with a 50% duty cycle (50% on-time) and a diode on the secondary, and to confirm if this results in 450 W average power to the load, let’s analyze step-by-step.
Key Parameters:

    Peak pulse power: 900 W into the primary during the on-time.
    Duty cycle: 50% (0.5), meaning the power is delivered for half the cycle.
    Battery voltage: 12 V (DC).
    Secondary side: Has a diode, delivering power to the load.
    Question: What is the average power drawn from the battery, and does this setup imply 450 W average power to the load?

Step-by-Step Analysis:
1. Average Power to the Load:

    The primary side delivers 900 W peak power during the 50% on-time. For a pulse transformer, the instantaneous power delivered to the primary is transferred to the secondary (assuming an ideal transformer with no losses).
    The average power delivered to the load on the secondary side is:
    Pavg, load=Ppeak×D=900×0.5=450 W.
    Pavg, load=Ppeak×D=900×0.5=450W.
    This confirms that, in an ideal system, the average power delivered to the load is indeed 450 W. The presence of the diode ensures unidirectional current to the load during the on-time, consistent with the 50% duty cycle.

2. Average Power Drawn from the Battery:

    In an ideal system (100% efficiency), the average power drawn from the battery equals the average power delivered to the load, as energy is conserved. Thus:
    Pavg, input=Pavg, load=450 W.
    Pavg, input=Pavg, load=450W.
    The CDI system stores energy in a capacitor during the off-time and discharges it into the primary during the on-time to achieve the 900 W peak power. The battery supplies a steady average power to charge the capacitor over the full cycle.

3. Average Current from the 12 V Battery:

    The average power drawn from the battery is:
    Pavg, input=V×Iavg.
    Pavg, input=V×Iavg.
    Given V=12 VV=12V and Pavg, input=450 WPavg, input=450W, the average current is:
    Iavg=Pavg, inputV=45012=37.5 A.
    Iavg=VPavg, input=12450=37.5A.
    Thus, the battery supplies an average current of 37.5 A to provide 450 W average power, which supports the 900 W peak power during the 50% on-time.

4. Real-World Considerations:

    Real CDI systems have losses due to:
        Transformer inefficiencies (core losses, winding resistance).
        Diode forward voltage drop (typically 0.7–1 V for a standard diode, reducing output power).
        Capacitor charging/discharging inefficiencies.
        Switching losses in the CDI circuit.
    Assuming a typical efficiency of 80% (a reasonable estimate for CDI systems), the input power required to deliver 450 W to the load is:
    Pavg, input=Pavg, loadη=4500.8=562.5 W.
    Pavg, input=ηPavg, load=0.8450=562.5W.
    The average current from the 12 V battery becomes:
    Iavg=562.512≈46.9 A.
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#5
(08-27-2025, 11:37 PM)Russ Wrote: The Engineer Horvath had 3 related Patents for hydrogen from water auto conversions. Final cell as low voltage , another at high voltage with same instilled circuit, and the more elaborate water cell with central radiation Magnetron tube.Photos do not tell which type was displayed.  I studied the low volts model and typed out page of proof reading errors not caught .Patents  designs included obvious non essential parts to deter people from replication, - such as cast special carburetor, large diameter cell, interior - rather than external transformer.
 Outer box strong magnets on sides of narrow cell would suffice to speed ions . I had 2 steel plates knurled rough with matching flutes nickel plated at machine shop.. They would face each other in narrow gap. High temp gray PVC plates measured for cell + removable cover. Source for free distilled water would still be needed.

A very interesting thread. I bought the Stanley Meyers DVD a few years ago someone put out and by what I can tell it was all about frequency, maybe multiple frequencies, but I thought why not use a frequency generator and find that perfect frequency that does the best job. Toss it at any AI engineering program and get it to draw a schematic to create that frequency. Anyway, just my thoughts.
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#6
If you were following my messages earlier, I said the sizing of original spoked electrodes anode with area dimensions , came from taking the Patent cell drawing  to an office copying machine with ruler, and doing successive enlargements , so as the TR2 metal core was exact 3/4", as stated in Patent". This way the other dimensions can be revealed. Are you building a cell+ power supply also?

What's important is the "time line"-  Speed of charging as faster than the discharging frequency of capacitor discharges. 51Khz full wave DC ripple frequency has period 1/F. It takes 2 pulses to fully recharge cap in between discharges. Each discharge of Cap is same, - .054Watt. Times 16,700 cycles for separate discharging oscillator to get the 900 Peak watts. Use scientific calculator with formulas. There has to be a "window" of time microseconds after the pulse stops, for the available off time , so as complete recharges happen for 330vDC. A feedback loop wiring and zeners + optocoupler as hooked back to the Master IC, SG3525 keeps voltage regulated, so as parts don't burn out with over voltage. 23.7usec cap stops through diode of primary, , with difference to 60 useconds of the discharge oscillator available off time. The 22 amps pulse is under 30useconds and then off to the 60usecs. This is reflected to the TR2 secondary side as POSITIVE DC pulse with off time in the water. 1/4 wavelength is used in formula for cap discharge time as primary has diode. The charging section at other end has about 12uhenry inductor and series diode also , so as just 330 volts is applied and not 660v. . You can also send short questions to Grok AI, but need to repeat with different wording so as a better reply is made. . A computer cannot think, just relay tech data that's all ready out there.
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