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Car Alternator Experiments
#1
I need to verify some of my theories using a car alternator, and I also have some experiments in mind...  So with holiday sales time of year, I picked up an alternator with 126 amps maximum under load for about $40...

The first thing I did was remove the voltage regulator and separated the DC output from the input of the brushes..  

   

Now I can power the rotor from a DC supply (or battery)  and direct the output to a separate load..

The first test I want to do is a simple rotor / current check..   Power the rotor with 12V ,  connect a load to the output, and spin it up..  I am expecting to see minor fluctuations in current draw going to the rotor coil, but there should be no direct link between input current and Output current..  This should help me understand how rotating magnetic fields behave in relation to Mutual Induction.

I also have another idea or two to try, I had AI's do a deep search and found no info on my proposed idea, so I remain hopeful..

We will see..  First to get this all mounted up and find a suitable motor to spin it
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#2
what kind of alternator is it? knowin 'alternators', i dont believe you can run it as a motor with just dc. would need to be 3 phase to drive the stators. the brushes typically power the winding inside the armature giving each of the iron alternating fingers N and S poles. if you disassemble the armature, you can replace the winding with a ring magnet to fit

this way you dont need external power to the armature run as an alternator or a motor. i would use as strong a mag as can fit. neo...

mags
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#3
(11-30-2024, 05:29 PM)magluvin Wrote: what kind of alternator is it?  knowin 'alternators', i dont believe you can run it as a motor with just dc.  would need to be 3 phase to drive the stators.  the brushes typically power the winding inside the armature giving each of the iron alternating fingers N and S poles.  if you disassemble the armature, you can replace the winding with a ring magnet to fit

this way you dont need external power to the armature run as an alternator or a motor.  i would use as strong a mag as can fit.  neo...

mags

Hey Mags...

Perhaps I didn't explain well enough,  it will be used as a generator (alternator), not a motor..  I will use a separate motor to drive it.

The rotor coil gets powered -then a separate motor spins it.  Just like a car..  Except I unhooked the rectified output from feeding the brushes, and will feed the brushes directly from a separate source..  First I want to measure current draw under load and NOT under load.  Essentially, I am expecting the input current to be relatively the same whether or not the output is loaded.

Keep in mind, I am NOT counting the power needed to spin it.
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#4
Here is what I came up with after digging around..

A treadmill motor rated at 1.5 HP and a thick belt.  This should work OK enough to test things out..

I printed mounts for the alternator, and I should be ready for assembly..  

   

I will probably wait till tomorrow to bolt it all down..

But this is my other thing I want to test..  Rotating An Alternating Current Magnetic Field...

So if I put AC into the rotor coil, it induces like a transformer-  just real weak and crappy..  But what if that AC fed rotor was Physically Rotating?  Would the output increase with rotation?  

Also it's mind boggling,  because if the RPM is not synced with the AC frequency,  there will be times the stator coils sense a Growing magnetic field on Exit, OR a Growing field on Approach..  Could drag be balanced out and neutralized while still controlling output power via RPM?

Once I get this setup, this is a real easy test..  Along with other ideas..

As a side note,  I DID power the rotor with AC and loaded the output.  Then hand-spun the rotor..  I noticed no drag (as expected)..  But I can not hand spin fast enough to verify if rotation increases the output..  

I searched for videos or info on Rotating an Alternating Current Fed coil to induce,  but came up dry.  Feel free to share if you see any vids.

More updates tomorrow (hopefully)
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#5
Your description reminds me of when you see wagon wheels appearing to go backwards. Calculating RPM and frequency inputs should get you the same result.

Really interesting idea Jim...
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#6
Thanks Unimmortal.  I been wanting to do these experiments for a while..

Update-  The first results are in!

As expected and predicted,  the Rotor Coil's power draw is "Decoupled" with the output power..  Whether we connect a load to the output or we leave the output Open Circuit, the power draw to the rotor coil remains roughly the same..

The rotor coil is drawing around 2.5 watts in this test OPEN CIRCUIT output.  And then loading the output with around 2 watts, the rotors input wattage basically stays the same...  



This test (although basic) demonstrates how the induction from a rotating field is completely different from that of a transformer.  

And hopefully it becomes clearer why I have been focused on creating a motionless rotating field that behaves the same..  Because I will soon be showing that the Output can FAR exceed the rotor coil's input --  IF we were not counting Drag..
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#7
Okay Update #2..  

 No Surprise here..  But here is a video of my alternator setup Outputting More Than Double the power than the power feeding the rotor coil..



Now hopefully the goal is clear for all to see..  If a circuit can be designed to induce an output coil in the same manner as an alternator, but without physical motion, the system will be able to produce well more than it takes to sustain the primary field.  

So far we know:  If building a motionless circuit-

1.  Whether the output circuit is open or closed, the input should stay averagely the same.
2.  The output should INCREASE with increase of frequency

We all probably already knew this-  BUT in my mind, this is the proof I need to keep me on track.
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#8
Here is another cool shot to ponder..

1.14V @ 0.547 amps Input to the Rotor..  =  0.62358 of a watt...

Shorted output of the stator is 6.7 Amps DC..

   

This just represents the Colossal Power Potential of the output with barely any input..  That is  ...  IF  we can get the correct rotational action..
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#9
DAMN!!

Out of interest, what is the input power on the DC motor?
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#10
(12-01-2024, 06:24 PM)unimmortal Wrote: DAMN!!

Out of interest, what is the input power on the DC motor?

It's taking quite a bit of power to rotate the Alternator..  Between 50 to 80 watts..  

There can be no Overunity when we are directly battling Lenz Drag like this...  The object now is to continue research on how to virtually rotate the field with no physical motion..  

It's tricky because the alternator can do this due to the way it handles the mutual induction back to the rotor coil..  A rotating field by itself is not enough..  The field has to rotate while replicating the same CEMF dynamics as the alternator does.  And several SNAFU's come into play when we use stationary coils.
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