You can do the same thing with the Briggs 8hp or larger riding mower engine. The plastic ring alternator under flywheel has many poles, and can be wrapped with dual wires same time like the Alexander patent. Wind Over + under, over + under. The poles make AC current. The ring is stationary and the 12 magnets rotate around it. All the alternator needs is to be rotated by crankshaft. Also, the there are two sizes of MAGNETS. get the flywheel such as 16hp type that has the larger magnets ,- there is LESS space between magnets to differentiate between 2 types. See photos on Ebay used parts. The ring gear has to be matched. Aluminum non mag gear goes with plastic SMALL gear on starter. Steel ring gear on flywheel goes with steel SMALL gear on starter. Got it? You can also CHANGE the small type starter gear to match. Ratio of 2  magnet wires about 3:1 size diameter. See wires chart.  The standard Briggs dual alternators type plastic ring, uses one line to charge battery half wave DC. , + other line runs the mower headlights on AC. There are many types of standard Briggs alternators and interchangeable. ( I doubt the Briggs company knew about the Alexander Patent when designing their dual wires Alternator type. ) Their dual AC type has 1 black wire and one red wire with bulge, as the diode. It's NOT black ground! The dual alternators type has the opposite 2 wires grounded UNDER ring to chassis top.
Look behind starter motor to see TYPE of alternator , as per Briggs chart PRINTED OUT copy, as the wires hanging down, as to number, color, color and shape of end connector. That's how it's done.
Used circular ring is about $15 to modify, or get whole engine to take upper section apart after removing flywheel.

---

Added Data ,--  The Briggs dual type alternators windings on same circular ring , is (2)  one halves of circle, as wound. (Not wound all the way around) The design can be changed!!  Can measure existing wires on ring with Vernier Caliper for exactness. Count the turns when unwinding from poles and mark it down. Would be nice to see Briggs engine creating excess power with duplication of Alexander US Patent.

Russ, this design relies on the output coil being induced by a rotating field in the armature while physically rotating past a static magnetic field. To just induce the output coil on a stationary stator defeats the purpose.

So I went ahead on my lunch break and grabbed the winch at Harbor freight.  I will post some pics of the parts a little later

$58.29 total I couldn't resist.  Yep, the insides are exactly as I posted earlier.

   

If I am building this thing, I'm gonna go the extra mile with the 4 pole unit.

(That commutator is like the perfect 16 pole Figuera commutator also)..  Even if it fails, the parts won't go to waste

Hello guys, I just did a quick search online for "winch commutator" and found this:
https://masen110112.en.made-in-china.com...tator.html

Is this the same commutator? Can't find it anywhere else like on aliexpress or ebay tho...

Dann

(09-23-2025, 06:10 PM)kapierenundkopieren Wrote: Hello guys, I just did a quick search online for "winch commutator" and found this:
https://masen110112.en.made-in-china.com...tator.html

Is this the same commutator? Can't find it anywhere else like on aliexpress or ebay tho...

Dann

Looks identical, and the dimensions match.  Should be the same, or real close!

So far so good.  the armature had 1mm wire on it making 8 turns per coil..  Heavy current / torque motor, hence it's a winch!  The windings all came off easily and stripped down perfectly with no damage..  Some reviews complained over the lack of epoxy on the windings calling it "cheap".  That's EXACTLY what I want because those windings got to go anyway..

I rewound with 24 awg, 16 turns per slot and I did not have enough room for the output coil..  So I will have to either reduce the turn count OR move to 26 awg..  

I'll get back to this tomorrow night

Question Jim - looking at Fig 1. again, item 10/11. Are you wrapping the output wiring to create a square (top view)  as was shown in the YouTube vids?

I doubt you'll fit a 3rd wrap, but the oscillation between 0 to 7A could be removed if you pulled a second output via a 3rd slip ring / winding that was at 45° to the primary output winding.

(09-24-2025, 02:34 AM)unimmortal Wrote: Question Jim - looking at Fig 1. again, item 10/11. Are you wrapping the output wiring to create a square (top view)  as was shown in the YouTube vids?

I doubt you'll fit a 3rd wrap, but the oscillation between 0 to 7A could be removed if you pulled a second output via a 3rd slip ring / winding that was at 45° to the primary output winding.

I tried explaining in a previous post, but maybe it was confusing to relay.

I think figure 1 is just a simplistic view to demonstrate the single output coil follows the same path and in the same slots as the primary, but the real build has many more poles, as the patent mentions something like 20 slots.  So the single secondary will wrap the entire path the primary does, thus covering the full rotation.

I am doing the primary and secondary in a sequential pattern, meaning wrap around slot 1 and 5, then 2 and 6, then 3 and 7, etc all the way around to 16 until the primary closes in on itself and connects to the beginning.  The secondary will do the exact same thing, except does not close, but goes to the 2 slip rings to tap the output.

In those Russian Videos, he did not wind the output following the input, but wound separate phase generator coils on the armature. My first attempt will be different.

See, you can take a sequentially wound DC motor and rotate it mechanically and get output,  OR you can wind 2 standard coils on it and also get an output.  But the 2 methods will produce different phase relationships to the physical position of the rotor. 

I am thinking in his videos he was close, but he was thinking in terms of regular generator output.

Quote:In those Russian Videos, he did not wind the output following the input, but wound separate phase generator coils on the armature.

Thanks, having not seen a 'proper' finished replication I was a little unsure how closely the Russian replication was aligned to the patent, or how it deviated. Nonetheless, very keen to see your replication wiring.

Ok lets take a close and simple look at his.

My drawing is a simple representation of an 8 pole.  The PURPLE is the Primary.  The GREEN is the output


This is how he wired it.  Notice the puurple is the primary and is sequentially wound.  But the green is not sequential, it's just 2 poles 180 degrees separated.

Note-  this drawing is just spanning 2 slots per winding.

   

You can see his windings pretty clearly.  Norice the purple bos is nicely wrapped in sequential fashion. But his output coil - he wound 2 stand-alone poles.

   

Now how I envision the patent, I think the output coil should be sequentially synchronized with the input coil like this:

   

Make sense?

Remember, the look and smoothness of rotation will depend on how many slots we span.  My first drawing was spanning 2 slots, but here is a drawing spanning 3 slots per coil.

   

Notice how the rotation will now be smoother, as there is more overlap.  BUT we must be careful and pay attention to the field magnet's coverage.  We want each coil to match the length of the field magnets, so the slot choice will be dictated by the magnet pole sizes.

Regarding 4 magnets (poles), this is the same as adding more magnets and coils on a standard generator.  It increases the output frequency by increasing the magnet-to-coil passes per revolution.  SO using a 4 magnet / brush setup essentially will double the frequency of the device over using 2 magnets / brushes without having to spin it any quicker.

Just for mind reference, a standard 12 pole car alternator outputs a frequency of about 900Hz and can easily top over a 1Khz. Even with 4 poles running at 3000 RPM, we are only at about 100Hz.  One may think we can just keep adding poles / brushes BUT every time we add more poles, we make the rotation choppier and choppier