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After Pulling My Hair Out A Bit...

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NICE!!!!

12 Phases to tap....  All 12 phases precisely overlapping...

Scope is showing the 2 phases 90 degrees from each other..

interesting set up, bloody hard work - congratulations

(08-03-2024, 08:36 PM)Lasco Wrote: [ -> ]interesting set up, bloody hard work - congratulations

Thanks, but I am not happy with it.  

First, here are 2 simple test coils used in the following test

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The top is the primary, the bottom is the output coil.    If I power the primary with DC and pass it over the output coil we get a pretty sinewave just like normal..

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Now look at my waves   Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.

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Even though the input wave appears uniform and pretty decent, the output is horrible looking..  It is starting to look like a sinewave of a rotor in rotation but it's FAR from good..  

I explained this in an earlier thread, - real physical motion is INFINITE Phases looped with absolutely no time delay between phases.  They run harmoniously with absolutely no pauses, jumps, delays, or flatlines.  

When I say "Resolution" of the sinewave, I mean just that.  With only 16 or 24 resistor contacts we are using a limited number of phases.  And even with the best electronics or commutators, the make before break delay combined with the limited number of phases results in CHOP...   NO GOOD!

Now look what Buforn Says in multiple patents..

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This suggests each and every turn of the resistor had a contact!  So there was not 16 contacts on the commutator, but 100's of contacts....  So the resolution of the machine was excellent!  When we make it with 16 or even 24 contacts, we are no where near the resolution needed to produce a sinewave that mimics a generator in real motion..

Remember, Figuera had to outsource parts to be produced in Germany..  This was a complicated build and not no 16 contact commutator.


A while ago I had an idea how to make unlimited phases with no delay..  But it requires me making a specialized part which will probably prove to be difficult for a home-tinkerer like myself. But I will try anyway..

If I can successfully make this part correctly, I will have unlimited possible phases with PERFECT rotational resolution.  This part will have no delay between phases, so the make before break is eliminated totally.  It is ALWAYS connected and connects one phase to the next exactly perfect.  All chop vanishes and the wave becomes smooth as rotation.

Only when the sinewave resolution is correct will it actually induce a proper sinewave into a coil that resembles real rotation.  

So I will post my progress when I make some on this part..

ADDITION-  I realize I can smooth my wave with a low pass filter or other methods.  But this comes with a Phase-Shift that I do not want here.  A generator uses a DC powered coil in rotation.  Phase shifts and Power Factors have no presence in a generator rotor.

Hi Jim
interesting observation
reading highlighted text from Buforn I'm even more confused
Do you think that a commutator could be made with a multiple of 16, like 64, 128?
My personal gut feeling is that the commutator is used only to start this device and after the device is running resistance is removed altogether.

I'm building a small unit with 7 triplets and I will try to fire them up in unison and observe how to eliminate resistance .

(08-05-2024, 02:30 AM)Lasco Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Jim
interesting observation
reading highlighted text from Buforn I'm even more confused 
Do you think that a commutator could be made with a multiple of 16, like 64, 128?
My personal gut feeling is that the commutator is used only to start this device and after the device is running resistance is removed altogether.

I'm building a small unit with 7 triplets and I will try to fire them up in unison and observe how to eliminate resistance .

It is my opinion the commutator and motor always runs.  Every patent of Buforn's and Figuera's patent all say something like this 

"only one small fraction is derived for the actuation of a small electrical motor which make rotate the brush, and another fraction goes to the continuous excitation of the electromagnets". 

The commutator takes the place of the engine that rotates an alternator. But if you turn the engine off, the alternator comes to a stop.  Same with the commutator.  The output far exceeds the power demand to keep the commutator motor going and feeds the varying field coils current.

As far as the resistor and contacts, there is no mention of how many contacts in any patent.  Most "ASSUME" it has 16 contacts based on the "Elementary" drawing which is no more than a sketch to understand the principle.   The only clue I have noticed is Buforn's repeated instruction that each and every loop of the resistor closes 1 at a time.  And from the elementary drawing, there is somewhere around 260 loops!

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It is my belief the input wave form is absolutely crucial. It Must mimic a magnetic field in smooth motion to perform like a generator. 

I can only state my beliefs and viewpoints. But I can almost guarantee a generator with jerky rotation that creates a sinewave with delays between steps will NEVER produce more output than is needed to sustain the magnetic field of the rotor.  Every time there is a slight delay or step, the induced wave goes down closer to zero, thus robbing us of output potential. Worse yet, if the delay is long enough the field collapses prematurely and goes into the opposite polarity at the wrong timing!..

This is why I am working on a similar method to produce a clean and smooth sinewave with resistance.

Lasco, I watching your thread as you update and interested in all results and developments!

So here is the idea I was referring to and the start of my first attempt..  

I want to make the commutator and resistor rig 1 piece with no contacts.  1 smooth ring resistor that measures around 12 Ω from end to end. This smooth resistor should have several "Phase Taps"  and be solid enough for a carbon brush to make constant contact.

Refer to this drawing for the gist of it..

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The black resistor ring will measure 12 Ω.  DC+ feeds a brush which always makes contact with the resistor ring and revolves.  

If I can get this to work, it would equate to INFINITE Contacts..  The resistance would increase and decrease perfectly smooth.  It would eliminate any and all jerkiness, chop, shelving, and steps.  It can be used to create an absolute perfect sinewave.  And we are NEVER dropping contacts or jumping resistance.  The brush ALWAYS makes contact and slides with no sparking.

So I need to see if I can make it...  Here is my first test pieces..

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I am starting with Epoxy Resin Binder and 400 mesh Graphene Powder.  I have a 42% concentration of graphene to resin on this first attempt..

I poured 1 full toroid 10mm thick and 2 other trays of varying depth.  Hopefully this will give me a starting point to tweak the mixture..

The variables are so complex I can not even begin to predict what resistance these pieces will have..  But I will report back in 24 hours with the first measurements..

Hey Jim, great work Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images. , and although I am taking a completely different approach to Figuera, it is exciting and inspirational to see others "hit the bench". Without a doubt, you have a lot of time invested (and dollars). I have been watching this thread and am really interested to see what kind of results you get.

My question is, "In what phase do you think the Figuera device develops additional energy to self-power?" This is kinda an open question with no real right answer, but I am interested in hearing your and others' thoughts on this.

-JA

(08-05-2024, 09:31 PM)Jose Antonio Wrote: [ -> ]My question is, "In what phase do you think the Figuera device develops additional energy to self-power?" This is kinda an open question with no real right answer, but I am interested in hearing your and others' thoughts on this.

-JA

Hi Jose,

Let me first propose a question to answer your question.

Why can an alternator produce more output than the power it takes to sustain the primary rotor coil but a transformer can not?

My answer to this is because an alternator creates "Distance" between the primary and output coils when the sinewave is declining (rotor pulling away)..  This "Distance"  limits the amount of Mutually induced EMF that can induce back to the primary.

Where as a transformer has NO Variations of distance.  So nothing is limiting, shielding, or reducing the effects of the mutual induction back to the primary on the shrinking wave..

So when a wave is trying to DECLINE, it does NOT want extra power jolt coming in..  But that's exactly what happens in a transformer..  The AC wave is trying to DECLINE to zero, but the primary is mutually induced from the secondary, sending extra current through the primary when it is Least Desired.  

I honestly think all the ingredients of a generator are already covered in the Figuera patent.  The resistor limits the mutually induced current exactly like the increasing distance of the rotor and output coils in an alternator!

I think the big problem why no one has reproduced the results is because every build I ever seen with resistance always produces a low resolution stepped sinewave,  not like a dynamo at all..  

Basically the resolution of the wave produced is WAY WAY too low..  The commutator probably needs hundreds of contacts, not 16.  Each contact should jump minimal amount of resistance as to not form flat steps.  

The difference can be compared to a child's drawn flipbook to a 4K UHD video.  The higher resolution produces more life-like results.  We are trying to mimic reality, which operates at a resolution equal to the speed of light.  A 16 contact commutator creates the general illusion of movement, but it isn't anywhere even remotely close to the resolution of actual reality.

That's why I am trying to create a commutator / resistor with infinite contacts and perfectly smooth output. I personally think all the ingredients are already presented in the patents.  Just no one has built it with the precision required to attain the goal..

I hope you decide to start a topic of your research and build.  A lot of people don't want to post unless they succeed, but I think sharing even if it doesn't work has immense value.

Well this morning my epoxy / graphene toroid's were solid enough to test ohms..  NO GOOD!  they are not conductive despite the high concentration of graphite powder...

Looking for other ideas..  How to make a resistive toroid that a carbon brush can ride on?

(08-06-2024, 07:02 AM)Jim Mac Wrote: [ -> ]Looking for other ideas..  How to make a resistive toroid that a carbon brush can ride on?

Sounds to me like you need a donut shaped rheostat. 2" bit of 3" tube wound tight with 0.5mm, and sanded smooth around the centre for the brush. You'd have to run the brush radially, but you could get a lot more steps in depending on wire thickness. If you know the resistance stepping you want, that could be calculated pretty easily.