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One gain mechanism that i know of is multiple drivers offer increased efficiency.

Simple example is speakers.

1 speaker.  1w in.  90db out
2 speakers. 1w total in. 0.5w each.  93db out
4 speakers. 1w total in. 0.25w each.  96db out

For each doubling of speakers, dividing the 1w input into subsequent doubling of the number of drivers, you increase 3db.

I have a pioneer sub that its 'sensitivity' rating is 96db @ 1w input.   if you run the formula that converts the sensitivity rating to efficiency, that sub is 2.5% eff..   100w in gets you 2.5w out in sound energy.  Sound is an energy that can be measured in watts.

Now, whats interesting is, if I add 1 sub, 0.5w each, that sensitivity rating increases to 99db @1w
4 subs, .25w each, 1w total, we are at 112db @ 1w.

Well guess what the formula says the eff is now!   100%eff    Yep. Unity.

8 subs should be around 200w out for 100w in...   :o

Now conversion back to electrical energy is a project of investigation.   There are a few speakers out there that are 112db @ 1w   100%eff  And they just may be 100% eff at converting sound back into electricity.  Speaker motors are some of the most eff.

Tesla dual motor car should have an increased eff.  What if it had 4 motors, one on each wheel?  Would we get a 6db increase vs 1 motor?

Recently a school built a 4 motor gokart that did 0-60 in like 1.2 sec i believe with just a 2kw batt pack.  I think they see the light.

Mags
I maybe wrong , the proposition you are discussing sound's like feed back? To make a system that is capable of amplifying it's output back to its input , and be able to use some of the excess energy to power other devices including it's self? The magnetic amplifier is a curious device.

https://youtu.be/DBX1-POuJMw?si=sv_IAlesNNUCovTr
feedback? no. been into car audio since 90s. guy had 2 15s with 2000w amp at a show back then. but a guy pulls up with 32 8s at 1000w and was way louder. never put it together as an OU possibilty till a few years ago. been into perpetual devices and FE since 7th grade. stuff i saw in the library then. so when discussung with my car audio buddy about more drivers gets you more output, it dawned on me. this is evidense of OU possibilty.
ive only found 1 site that discusses and shows SPL @ 1w vs eff in/out. 112db @ 1w is 100% eff. why so very little info on that? try to find software that 'designs' a speaker driver. one was called SPEAD if i remember correctly, not available any longer even 20 yrs ago when i was looking. latest i have found that one speaker co they just put stuff together and test for the best.
if there are speakers rated at 112db@1w, would it be impossible to get to 114db@1w? stronger magnet. lighter cone. looser suspension. but, im betting that speaker manufacturers are regulated to not go above 112db@1w.

then there is vented tuned enclosures that can increase output 6 to 10db.

mags

feedback? no. been into car audio since 90s. guy had 2 15s with 2000w amp at a show back then. but a guy pulls up with 32 8s at 1000w and was way louder. never put it together as an OU possibilty till a few years ago. been into perpetual devices and FE since 7th grade. stuff i saw in the library then. so when discussung with my car audio buddy about more drivers gets you more output, it dawned on me. this is evidense of OU possibilty.
ive only found 1 site that discusses and shows SPL @ 1w vs eff in/out. 112db @ 1w is 100% eff. why so very little info on that? try to find software that 'designs' a speaker driver. one was called SPEAD if i remember correctly, not available any longer even 20 yrs ago when i was looking. latest i have found that one speaker co they just put stuff together and test for the best.
if there are speakers rated at 112db@1w, would it be impossible to get to 114db@1w? stronger magnet. lighter cone. looser suspension. but, im betting that speaker manufacturers are regulated to not go above 112db@1w.

then there is vented tuned enclosures that can increase output 6 to 10db.

mags
Hi Mags,

when you talk about SPL, do you mean A-weighted SPL which most SPL meters measure? What I think happens for example in the open enclosure is that there is different transfer function for the sound due to the shape, surface and material of the space it travels through, the sound changes character (different frequencies travel at different speeds and reflect differently) thereby the spectrum of the sound perceptually changes and sounds louder, which is what A-weighting is aimed to approximate.

Weighted SPL is related to human hearing and if something sounds louder doesn't mean it outputs more power. If you are talking about unweighted SPL, than there could really be something to it.

Another thing is impedance which changes if you connect two speakers instead of one to the same amplifier output, but I assume you know how that works since you are in car audio. But you didn't mention it and that could be the reason speakers and amplifiers do what you described.


I am not saying that it is not possible to achieve overunity this or any other way, because I don't know. Let's say you can output more acoustic pressure than you power the speaker with, how do you use that power? There is so much noise in this world, finding something that makes energy from it would be awesome Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.
it was all about "gain mech' thats all. in all of it just look at the gain gotten by 'resonance' of a vented enclosure. it may be that we dont need the cones or move air at all. there is a horse they use to pull heavy loads. suposedly can pull 6000 to 8000lb, but 2 horses can pull 30,000lb.. look it up. gain from more drivers is all im giving here. its more than most on this forum, besides what of the same i have given to other forums. but , nobody takes it to heart. its relatively new yet old info. just nobody even tries it. hubbard coil. what, 6 driver coils and a middle secondary. from what i had written here in another thread, i even explain the possible workings that should stand your hair on end knowing that idea. i have a pdf i have to dig up that takes you through details of why and how it is done. ill post later this evening.

when they talk about spl/1w for giving a sensitivity rating, you tell me which form of spl reading they are using. you seem to have certain knowledge on the subject, enough so that you proposed the seemingly detailed arguement on my claims.
if i input 1w sine into my 96db sub, and i put my decibel meter, 1 meter away from the cone of the sub, free air separation, what setting on my decibel meter should i see 96db????

then you may argue that the gain seen by a vented enclosure is only reduction of inefficiency that occurs naturally in the system.. well so what. it gives a gain no mater what the systems situation is in. and the more eff the speaker, the more attractive that resonant gain becomes and should never be discarded nor discredited. the info it out there.
Mags
it was all about "gain mech' thats all. in all of it just look at the gain gotten by 'resonance' of a vented enclosure. it may be that we dont need the cones or move air at all. there is a horse they use to pull heavy loads. suposedly can pull 6000 to 8000lb, but 2 horses can pull 30,000lb.. look it up. gain from more drivers is all im giving here. its more than most on this forum, besides what of the same i have given to other forums. but , nobody takes it to heart. its relatively new yet old info. just nobody even tries it. hubbard coil. what, 6 driver coils and a middle secondary. from what i had written here in another thread, i even explain the possible workings that should stand your hair on end knowing that idea. i have a pdf i have to dig up that takes you through details of why and how it is done. ill post later this evening.

when they talk about spl/1w for giving a sensitivity rating, you tell me which form of spl reading they are using. you seem to have certain knowledge on the subject, enough so that you proposed the seemingly detailed arguement on my claims.
if i input 1w sine into my 96db sub, and i put my decibel meter, 1 meter away from the cone of the sub, free air separation, what setting on my decibel meter should i see 96db????

then you may argue that the gain seen by a vented enclosure is only reduction of inefficiency that occurs naturally in the system.. well so what. it gives a gain no mater what the systems situation is in. and the more eff the speaker, the more attractive that resonant gain becomes and should never be discarded nor discredited. the info it out there.
Mags
(05-29-2024, 09:16 PM)magluvin Wrote: [ -> ]"hubbard coil.  what, 6 driver coils and a middle secondary. from what i had written here in another thread, i even explain the possible workings that should stand your hair on end knowing that idea. i have a pdf i have to dig up that takes you through details of why and how it is done.  ill post later this evening."
Mags

Hi Mags, I have collected from Internet and written most of the Hubbard info avaible at:

http://gratisenergi.se/hubbard.htm

I would be very pleased to copy and publish your hubbard.pdf on my Hubbard page. I you don't mind you can always send a copy to my official e-mail address:

hermes@gratisenergi.se

P.S If you didn't know I have made a free energy linkpage at:

http://gratisenergi.se/free.htm

Best Wishes, Hermes

P.S according to an image Hubbard had 8 not 6 coils around a center coil.
(05-29-2024, 09:16 PM)magluvin Wrote: [ -> ]it was all about "gain mech'  thats all.  in all of it just look at the gain gotten by 'resonance' of a vented enclosure. it may be that we dont need the cones or move air at all. there is a horse they use to pull heavy loads. suposedly can pull 6000 to 8000lb, but 2 horses can pull 30,000lb.. look it up.  gain from more drivers is all im giving here.  its more than most on this forum, besides what of the same i have given to other forums.  but , nobody takes it to heart. its relatively new yet old info. just nobody even tries it.  hubbard coil.  what, 6 driver coils and a middle secondary. from what i had written here in another thread, i even explain the possible workings that should stand your hair on end knowing that idea. i have a pdf i have to dig up that takes you through details of why and how it is done.  ill post later this evening.

when they talk about spl/1w for giving a sensitivity rating, you tell me which form of spl reading they are using. you seem to have certain knowledge on the subject, enough so that you proposed the seemingly detailed arguement on my claims.
if i input 1w sine into my 96db sub, and i put my decibel meter, 1 meter away from the cone of the sub, free air separation, what setting on my decibel meter should i see 96db????

then you may argue that the gain seen by a vented enclosure is only reduction of inefficiency that occurs naturally in the system.. well so what.  it gives a gain no mater what the systems situation is in. and the more eff the speaker, the more attractive that resonant gain becomes and should never be discarded nor discredited.  the info it out there.
Mags

Maybe the horses have a strong team spirit Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register at the forum by clicking here to see images.  I am joking of course and sorry if my message upset you, that was not my intention. I just happen to have some background in electroacoustics so I can think of all the things that could explain these effects. I appreciate you presenting your observations. And for example I didn't know about the Hubbard coil, I will check it out, it looks very interesting and I would appreciate you sharing the document about it.

On a decibel meter I would use Z-weighting, that means zero-weighting, it is taking the sound pressure level as is not how humans perceive it. Sometimes it is shown as dbZ, or db(Z) on a SPL meter.
https://youtu.be/F_CDiy84yMw?si=fPmvlntC70X5QAtl is this a open pressure system ? Trying to comprehend this overunity of speaker pressure level.